I always have my opinions also with Will. Sometimes, he often gives me some insight about the regions. So far, the regions in Indonesia have seen a lot of improvements, especially with community management. If you check our follows right now, it's actually improved. If you compare it to the first quarter, we had a lot of new users, but they didn't stick, right? For now, our focus is to get them on board, have their attention, and focus on our prediction markets, Payfi, and so on. That's going to be our focus in the next quarter.
But what's working in Indonesia? I'm not really focusing on the swap, because the prediction market has a lot of improvement. They like the prediction markets. I think you already know, in Indonesia, the online gambling following is very big—like 19 billion dollars last year—and they are very interested in the product. The next step, I actually already, I will just share this concern—this actually just today. We are whitelisting our affiliates in our TR system. You can check after two hours. We already have almost 12K views, and all of them are asking about the QR payments. They are very interested in the QRIS.
Even my friends from Suwi community, Meteora, Hyper Liquid, are very excited about QRIS, because other wallets don't have this kind of system. They have cards, but cards for Indonesians are not that important, right? On a daily basis, I'm not paying with cards, I'm paying with cash. This is a very important function for us going forward, especially for the web3 communities. They are very interested in the product, because we can even pay with Pangu, with Chip, right? I already see the video, it's very interesting for them also. And you can say, I will send the links for you to check. They are interested, they are asking about the fees also, the spread of the rate of USDT. I think we can improve that also. I already ask Juno to discuss with Defender. There's a lot of excitement around the Pay By area in Asia. Going forward, I think we can also convert most of the existing users from swap, from the predictions, and from the珀 to use their USDT daily for payments. Going forward, I think it's very easy for us to convert them also.
OK, I think the scan QR code is a very useful feature in Indonesia. Yes, it's cool. I received your document, and I want to say, the problem and the market feedback you have been doing are generally valuable. Keep doing it, and make it a regular practice. I think it's very useful for us. Going global is, I think, about going local. What each market actually needs—I will need you on the ground to keep telling us where our product hits friction in Indonesia. Where do users get stuck? Which features simply don't load locally? These may be opportunities we haven't seen yet. Finding PMF in the Indonesia market is one of your core responsibilities.
I understand. I already give some insight also to Will. I think cards will also be launched by Quarter 3, right? If I'm not mistaken for Indonesia. I have to talk, but for Indonesia, even if we launch the card, we cannot have our focus on cards. The main reason is, even for credit card in Indonesia, we only have around 6 to 7 percent of the total population using credit cards. There's a reason for that. The first is, the KIR system is already integrated to most of Indonesia. Even for me to buy some cigarettes, for example, or some small snack, I can just use QRIS. Putting my cards over there is fairly a hassle, even given our cost is quite high. I think it's around 20 or 50 dollars to print one card, and for most Indonesians that's very expensive. I already asked it for real. Even if we give the card to them, I don't think we need to spend too much for cards. Given the promotion and so on, I think we can focus on the QR.
I agree with you. I'm from China, I know the QR code is a very useful feature for the local people. In China, people don't use any credit cards, only Alipay or WeChat Pay. Correct, I can understand what you mean. Ha ha ha ha. Because, card usually we just pay for maybe if we are buying something from Alibaba or Amazon. But most of our users will be based in Jakarta or Surabaya, the big cities. If you want to get new users in the rural area, like what I did, card is not for them. We cannot get them to buy the cards, but for big cities, yes, maybe we can get some market share, but for the rural area in Indonesia, it's not a good fit for them.
Which city do you live in, in Indonesia? Right now in Makassar, in the middle of Indonesia. Maybe—it's close with Bali, one hour flight to Bali.
Are you going to attend Coinbase also, Carey? I want to attend the conference next month. I will go to Canada to touch the local team and local users. Correct, let's go. My English is not very good, so, ha ha. I only want to communicate, and I think we can get help from them. OK, thank you. I'll attend the conference. It is very important to us.
I want to hear your take on prediction markets. I know people like gambling, but Indonesia has a strong traditional sports betting culture. But why would betting users switch to an on-chain prediction market? What can we offer that a betting platform can't? Is it now generally irreplaceable, valuable here, or is the direction fundamentally not comparing for that kind of user?
The first one is, the prediction market is very compelling for conservative gamblers. What I mean is, conservative gamblers see that the odds are 50/50. They like it, right? Because in traditional gambling, there's market makers, there's the banker that will make you lose, so it's not fair for them. For us, that's one of our strengths. The second one is, because we can pay with QRIS, our brand positioning is very strong compared to normal online gaming. In normal online gaming platforms in Indonesia, you cannot pay in cash. You have to cash out—how do you want to cash out? You have to go to the merchant and do the top up with Dana or Gopay. So you get the digital wallets for Rupiah, then you can get cash. It's a hassle for them to convert, right? They get just like 5,000 or 10,000 rupiah, almost one dollar for one transaction.
They can just get the deposits in USD, USDT, then they can pay right away. They can even cash out using the digital wallet—go to the merchants, cashing out, scan the QR codes, then they will get the cash. It's very helpful for them to operate. I think I already put some suggestions on the docs also, if you read. Add more entertainment. I know the casino is not legal—almost everywhere, it's not very legal—but I think we can hide it somewhere. Because most of them also ask me about this. Yes, this is good, but it's not very entertaining for me. They already adapted to doing slots, mahjong, joker, or playing cards with their friends. They already adapt with this. If you want to get them on board fully—for most local gamblers or just non-consecutive gamers, all of them coming in—we have to give them the entertainment purpose, because these guys are not coming here to win money. They just want to spend. They want to see the sound, they want to see the slots coming in. They like it, that's the main purpose. Maybe in the next round, you can try to find some dApp or vendor that can have the same focus for us, especially with the slots and so on, because they already know how it works, even though they are losing.
It's very interesting. I will read your document again, maybe I can have some new insights in this. We want real quality growth, not inflated numbers with inactive users. As we grow, I need you to keep feeding us insights. What are the real blockers for our product in Indonesia? Where are users dropping off, and are there opportunities we are not pursuing yet that could actually work in this market?
Please continue first. We want to build a USD account for Indonesian people. I don't know, do people there use or have demand for a USD account? We will integrate a vendor—they can provide a VA account. They can accept USD or send USD for any bank account. In fact, we want to help the emerging country people to have a USD account. Use our wallet, and they can have about four or five percent APY, and they can invest in US stocks. Maybe they can transfer the USD directly, or they can scan QR code to pay anything. What's your opinion about this strategy? Do you think the Indonesian people like this feature? In fact, we don't design this feature for the crypto native user. We want to service the normal people—they have USD account demand.
OK, so this is helpful, because even in Indonesia, Rupiah is always going down compared to USD. Even for me, I'm not keeping any rupiah. For rupiah, I just get some if I want to buy groceries, for example. For us, in the web3, this is already the safe zone. For most of them, I already pitched the idea to the web2 communities. What they think is, they are very interested in the product. What they're lacking right now is they cannot see the end. What I mean is, they can do their deposits, yes, but how to withdraw? How do I cash out? That's still going to be a problem, but I think after July, we are going to launch the kids payments. It's going to be helpful, but I think the next step for us, the most important time, is for them to cash out to their bank. For example, I want to test out this USDT into my bank, that's important. The USDP part, the real USDP part or the FA, is not that important for us, because we already have USDT or USDC—it's the same pegging, right? But if we can support the liquid staking, where we don't need to deposit, but we already have, let's say, three percent or two percent automatically daily, without locking the money on the dApp, it's going to be helpful for us, rather than locking the money. I think that's the most important feature for us to convert them.
First, I think we need a lot of work on the deposit flow, which is transparent. Because if we get blockers from that part, like the top of the funnel, then the conversion will be very low. But after we fix all of the problems with Transpray and so on for the deposit part, I think our conversion will be much, much higher than right now.
Got it. I think we can try this. In our industry, we said mass adoption for so many years. Now we want to do this USD account to help us, the industry, go to the real world, to master adoption, help the people have a chance to hold USD assets, not only local fiat.
Do you have any suggestion for me, or what can I do for you to improve your work?
They are already very helpful for me. If I have this kind of problem, then we are already connected, and we have discussions. For your side, from the strategies, I think you can think of a more strategic approach, especially with the timeline. Because right now, for me, I feel like the timeline is very broad. I don't know what to focus for July, for example. We have a lot of things going on, like the campaign, but it's not really—they don't have a story, because the first campaign and the second campaign didn't have a connection. But if we have some final strategy, for example, like for the first campaign in the first week of July, let's focus on getting the awareness. OK.
The second week, let's focus on converting them into the prediction market, for example, or doing a swap. First, and then the third one, we focus on letting them make some payments after they've had some profits. Right now, we don't have a complete funnel ready for the campaign. I think that's one of the things we're missing right now.
I don't know if I understand your real meaning. You said our feature is very complex, which is, yeah, what we’re focusing on. In Indonesia, I think the pay fire is our first important thing. When we have the VA account, when we can send and receive USD directly, and we can scan QR codes, and accept the fiat on-ramp from the rop—the rop. We want to test if we can become a new bank. In Indonesia, that's the first important thing.
Other features help us to reach users, like a prediction market or an earn product, where we can offer 5 percent or 10 percent APY. It's only to help us hook people into our app. But the most important thing is one question: can we become a USD new bank in Indonesia? If we can completely accomplish this strategy, I think we can become a valuable company and product. We can solve real people's real demands, not just letting people buy some coin. I think gambling people are a very big market, but it's not the mass adoption people. For many years, the core trading people are in the exchange.
Our strategy is to go to the next stage, to become a web3, to become a stablecoin new bank—stablecoin, Revolut, like this. A fintech company. We can help people store USD, invest USD assets, US stock, anything, I think. I know it's very difficult for us to balance the two things. Usually, the meme coin swap and prediction market give us revenue, and we invest in the pay fire. We don't have revenue in the pay fire direction now, but I think we can invest three years in this direction and help it become a really useful company and product.
It's very interesting because even if we activate the Keras system in Indonesia, we're going to have a lot of news coming in, since most of my friends and higher-ups in Meta Era Indonesia, Hyper Liquid Indonesia, Su Indonesia, they're very interested in these functions. Other wallets don't have it yet. When they can do curious, especially for Indonesians, it's a hustle for them to convert USD when they want to pay 50,000 rupiah—that's around 3 dollars. It's very hazardous to convert 500 dollars into rupiah just to pay 3 dollars for coffee. It's very helpful.
In the near future, I think the adoption of blockchain will happen when we open up the bank account here in USD. People don't need to know we are doing it on blockchain. It's going to be very seamless for them to use the account for trading, swap, meme, stock, payments. We don't even know the chains or which gas fee they need to operate. That's the kind of narrative you want to chase, and I agree, because that's the dream of every payment system right now—they want to get that narrative as a lead. I think we use the chain and stablecoin in the backend, but users only care about their USD.
Next quarter, we will improve our products and make them easier to use, and it can smoothly work like a new bank, like Do Re Pay—Do Re Pay is the best. They don't have any concern about what's the chain, or what's Polygon, or UST, or USTD. They don't need to care about it. They only care about UST in, UST out. UST can invest in anything, gambling, pay with any QR code, have 4 percent APY, and the value doesn't change. I think it's very useful for everyone, especially young people. They can touch the new technology.
Most of the products on the market, like predictions, swaps, meme for example on the 珀尔, we already have that in one app. Doing that, we're going to have more appendices compared to the other wallets I got.
I'm very glad to communicate with you, and you know, my English is not very good, but I can read the English documents. It's very good. You can write more documents or text me directly. Your insights are very helpful for us, and I think it's the right thing. The local team can give us local insights and help us improve our product.
Thank you, Gary. Glad you like it. I also put a lot of effort into compiling the inputs and insights from the users, and then make some judgment whether this is the correct direction for the product or not. OK, thank you, and have a good day. Maybe one month later, I will connect with you again. OK, OK, OK, bye bye bye bye.
